www.nationalismwatch.org
"We, the Basques, must avoid the mortal contagion, maintain firm our faith in our ancestors and the serious religiosity that distinguishes us, and purify our customs, before so healthy and exemplary, now so infected and at the point of corruption by the influence of those who have come from outside."
Sabino Arana, Basque Nationalist Party-PNV, Founder.
On February 14th, Stanford will host a conference for the political heir of Sabino Arana, the president of the Basque Autonomous Communitiy. Juan Jose Ibarretxe. If you believe in human dignity, if you believe that such evil ideology should not be given an unchallenged voice in this campus, join thousands of other Concerned citizens from Spain, the Stanford Community and the United States.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/notoibarretxeatstanford/

The reasons are explained in the petition itself. We clearly conclude that,
"For the aforementioned reasons, we believe that the main driver behind Ibarretxe's event at Stanford is so he can put pressure into the Spanish Government and influence the Spanish General Election outcome, which will take place shortly after."
The text has been studied by the following politicians before we got their endorsement,
- Rosa Diez (ex-PSOE, now UPD)
- Antonio Masip Hidalgo (member of the European Parliament, PSOE)
- Alfonso Alonso Aranegui (PP member, former major of Basque City Vitoria)
- Mikel Buesa (UPD), this is the speaker we are proposing. As we say in the petition, inviting him "would not make the event less political but at least would prevent Stanford from being perceived as taking sides with Ibarretxe."
We are sure there are more prominent endorsers politicians but we have to look into the list further (we have a lot of work). These are the ones that we know for a fact that they have signed.
In addition, in some Spanish media you can read regarding this event,
http://www.libertaddigital.com/index.php?action=desanoti&cpn=1276321721
Mikel Buesa: if the PNV (Ibarretxe's party) is very active and successful in its international propaganda is due to the fact that he uses money from the Basque Government to lobby and to the ineptitude of the different Spanish National Governments who have been unable to confront it.
Inma Castilla de Cortázar, vicepresident of Foro de Ermua, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foro_Ermua, considers the current format of the invitation/event regrettable and an abuse to freedom of speech.
Mikel Buesa (again): the international distribution of the Basque Nationalist propaganda is due to the fact that during thirty years the PNV has had at its disposal public money, the channels and contacts of the Basque Government to proclaim its independence project.
Finally, the lawful representative of the Navarresse Government has officially protested president Hennessy for hosting the event in its current format.
Either Mr Etchemendy is completely clueless about these facts, or he has his judgment completely clouded when making conclusions.
Ibarretxe GO HOME!!!!!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/notoibarretxeatstanford/

http://www.abc.es/20080121/nacional-politica/masiva-oposicion-conferencia-ibarretxe_200801210245.html

http://www.stanford.edu/group/sixdegrees/issues/sd-spring04-full.pdf
Page 8
Ibarretxe GO HOME!!!!!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/notoibarretxeatstanford/

Half of the Basque population is the target of a terrorist group, only one side of this so-called (by Mr. Resina and other nationalistic champions) "confrontation" gets killed, kidnapped, extort, etc.

And Resina claims the victims avoid the debate by searching "path of confrontation"?

Please Mr. Resina, this is nothing else but a democratic opposition. I know you would love to have your "confrontation" to justify your words. But, I'm sorry, the victims are going to be there, at Ibarretxe's campaign act, with words and questions as always has been (not bullets and extortion, as the nationalists do in Spain).

Going back to the European beginning of the XXth century... It's really sad.

Peace!

http://www.nationalismwatch.org

I am a Stanford graduate: MS' 78
I cannot get to understand why this person obtained the invitation from Stanford to give this supposed lecture or whatever it is.
Many thanks for this initiative.

when it comes to the destruction of the zambos of America, and France's http://www.francewatcher.org/ clear role it their extermination: one must take into consideration how blacks were also exterminated in Europe as well 654 years ago! Singling out the extermination of blacks in Europe on [31 October]! All Saint's Day, as Mexico's, Days of the Dead
follows chronologically, [1, 2, & 3 November]. However, in America, Christianity seems to be lost, though Hitler's swastika is definately of Native American origin, and that when it is unfurled, it appears to take on the shape of a Christian cross!

Ongi etorri Ibarretxe jauna! Welcome Mr. Ibarretxe!

I know that freedom of speach is restricted in Spain, but I would think Spanish nationals now residing in the US would have caught on by now.

Also - that Sabino Arana quote is quite dated (19th century). The PNV has evolved since then and has dominated every Basque government since the inception of the Basque Autonomous Community in 1980. This PNV lead government has transitioned the Basque Region of Araba, Gipuzkoa and Bizkaia to the technological and industrial and cultural powerhouse that it is today.

We can all learn something from what Mr. Ibarretxe has to say.

Philippe Acheritogaray
Basque Educational Organization
San Francisco

I think you got your data wrong about freedom of speech. The following come from reputed journalism associations from the time Ibarretxe was in power with the help of Batasuna (up to 2001),
International Press Institute, http://www.freemedia.at/, 2001 World Press Freedom Review, Spain:
“Life for journalists working in the northern Basque region of Spain is filled with violence, threats and fear. The aggression against the media that tainted 2000 continued last year; there were numerous bomb attacks against media outlets as well as individual reporters and, as in 2000, one journalist was killed. The bloodshed has resulted in many reporters leaving the region to look for work elsewhere. The ones that remain employ bodyguards and continue to carry out their work under the ubiquitous threat of violent retribution.This bleak situation is the result of a war of terror waged by separatist group ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna), which is fighting to create an independent Basque "homeland". After breaking a truce that had lasted for more than a year, ETA
"Reporters sans frontières, http://www.rsf.fr/, Spain – Annual report 2002,
“In the context of the terror campaign conducted by the ETA in the Basque region of Spain, violence against the press came to a head after the election setback of the Basque Independence Party in the regional elections of May 2001. The year was marked by the continuing terror campaign, especially against the press, conducted by the terrorist organisation, Euskadi ta Askatasuna (ETA) in the Basque region and the rest of Spain. Attacks with journalists as targets resumed abruptly after the regional elections of 13 May 2001 … On 7 June 2001 two ETA leaders declared that the attacks on the press "advance the cause of free speech" for the pro-independence movement. On 31 May 2001, after condemnations expressed in 2000 by the European Parliament and its president, Nicole Fontaine, the vice-president of the European Commission, Loyola de Palacio, with Reporters Without Borders denounced the violence and the death threats against journalists in the Spanish Basque country, in the heart of the European Union. RSF requested that a European Parliamentary mission be sent to the Basque country and initiated a chain of solidarity with the Basque country journalists threatened by the ETA in the line of their professional duty. The European media were invited to send one of their journalists to the region (San Sebastian, Bilbao…) to visit editorial offices and testify to the working conditions of the region's press professionals.”
Sabino Arana's quotes might be outdated but the fact is that PNV continues to honor him and has never officially renounced to honor his figure (like with this foundation),
http://www.sabinoarana.org/?sesion=1&portada=no
So, what you are saying is that it would be perfectly appropriate for a National German party to honor Hitler's figure as long as the party disagreed with some of Hitler's past issues. This is not very convincing my friend.
Regarding your last point, the Basque Country is "so prosperous" that as I said previously, an estimated 200000 (two hundred thousands) Basques have left the Basque region during the last 17 years or so due to political prosecution by ETA with the tacit support of Ibarretxe.

There are factions of the Spanish extreme right that can not tolerate the fact that Ibarretxe, a democratically elected official is coming to the U.S. to inform Americans of his Road Plan for peace in the Basque Country. Fortunately, this is the U.S. where political parties are not ilegalized or newspapes shut down easily like in Spain. Let Ibarretxe speak and judge for yourself.

i would think this would be a perfect opportunity for opponents of ibarretxe to question or challenge him since the format would allow this. i find the fact the people prefer to silence him rather than be open to dialogue frightening, an quite ignorant, frankly.

From the petition,
We urge Stanford to either cancel the event all together, or to invite a political challenger to Ibarretxe's claims. The latter would not make the event less political but at least would prevent Stanford from being perceived as taking sides with Ibarretxe.
We are completely open to a university sponsored debate where the audience can get both sides of the issue from the panelists so they can make an informed opinion. Instead the university has agreed to offer a platform so Ibarretxe can make a political rally 3 weeks before the Spanish election.

>Does the Spanish Prime Minister have a Basque political >challenger when he gives speeches overseas? No, right? That >would be ridiculuous!
This question is senseless in the sense that it has a false assumption is that there is a battle between Spain's Prime Minister and Euskadi's lehendakari and that both are at the same level. I am afraid that it's not the case. Mr Ibarretxe is nothing more, but nothing less either, than the executive leader of a Spanish region. Something like (although I hate this type of analogies) Arnold here. I am not aware of a single instance where Zapatero has given an unchallenged talk at a renown forum about changing the political status of an international body which faces strong opposition from its constituency, as Ibarretxe is doing with his plan.
>If you have questions for him, just go there and state >them. For the people that have doubts, just read >Ibarretxe's document. It is 100% democratic and it can only >be aproved by a referendum in the Basque Country. Here's >the link to his plan : >http://www.nuevoestatutodeeuskadi.net/docs/dictamencomision20122004_eng.pdf
The Spanish Constitution is the supreme law of the land in Spain. The Spanish congress decisions override the decisions of the regional parliaments. No regional parliament can pass a law with the opposition of the Spanish congress. The document you mentioned, was approved by the Basque Parliament but rejected by ~ 90% of the representatives at the Spanish congress among other reasons because it sought to modify the Spanish constitution unilaterally (by modifying the status of the Basque country). Any modification of the Spanish constitution requires the approval of a majority of Spaniards. Then, there is also that referendum which Ibarretxe wants to call this next October against the will the Spanish Government, which can only be called by Spain's Cabinet, and therefore would be illegal if Ibarretxe decided to go ahead with it.
And finally, as pointed out by the letter from the Government of Navarra to President Hennessy, this plan makes unrealistic territorial claims in Navarra.
Under US law, even if the majority of the California people wanted, California would not be allowed to annex Oregon and Washington State with the intent of creating either a "free associated state" or an independent nation out of the US. This is very clearly understood by most Americans, yet some people like you try to aggressively manipulate the rules of democracy with demagoguery.

Ongi etorri, welcome, Mr. Juan Jose Ibarretxe, Democratically elected President of the Autonomous Community of the Basque Country in Spain.

Jose Manuel, you are entirely wrong about Mr. Ibarretxe. He hates ETA and anything to do with violence. (I also hate ETA, but I love freedom of speech). I am sorry to say that you are becoming a political puppet of the right-wing Spanish nationalist party, Popular Party, which by the way has never condenmed General Francisco Franco's brutal dictatorship that last for forty years. Those against Mr. Ibarretxe are satellite groups (e.g., Foro de Ermua etc) of the Popular Party, whose honorary President, Fraga, was a Minister of Franco who was directly responsible of the so-called massacre of Vitoria, where ordinary citizens protesting peacefully in a church were killed by the Spanish police in the 1970s.

Mr. Ibarretxe should be allowed to talk anywhere, particualrly at a university as Stanford. If you don't agree that's fine. If you are so eager to express yourself about your ideology, I am not going to be the one who is going to stop you to talk, even if I don't agree what your ideas. At least, I give you that right. Why don't you do the same with a representative of the Basque people?

We should not forget the debt that the free world has with the Basques and their current representatives. They fought against Franco, Hitler and Mussolini alongside Americans, alongside democracy and against evil fascist governments.

Sorry but anybody that reads your response to what I said can easily realize that you are a Spanish nationalist trying to stop Basques from voting in a democratic referendum. Let's just let the Basques decide how the want to rule themselves. Sorry, Spaniards, you lost the American colonies and soon the Basque Country, too. Deal with it!!!

Kaixo Philippe,
>I wish I could respond with hyperlinks from one of my >favorite newspapers, Euskaldunon Engukaria, but it was shut >down by Spain in February of 2003 and its editors were >tortured with "evidence" that was several years old and >later was insufficient to continue legal proceedings.
This is bullshit. If your arguments were verifiable, they could be cross examined with other sources. The fact that you consider Egunkaria (or in fact any other journal for that matter) as your only valid source shows how biased you are. Regarding the shutting down of Egunkaria, and whatever problems there might have existed during the legal proceeding, the fact that there is a new Newspaper in Basque Language called Berria and that there is another in Basque/Spanish called Gara, both of which are eminently Basque nationalist takes into pieces your "conspiracy theory" that non Basque people are against Basques, for being Basques. Because, in the first place, who is Basque? According to Mr Ibarretxe, Basque = Basque Nationalism. However, there are many people of Basque ethnicity, native Basque language speakers who not only see themselves as Basques but also as Spaniards, and that seems to trouble a lot narrow minded guys like yourself. Let me give you an example,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1023300,00.html
Apparently, the existence of these "pure Basque people" who are not "Basque Nationalists" is too much to bear not only for Mr Ibarretxe but also for ETA.

>Sabino Arana's "racists" early writings are later >contradicted by later writings he did. And again, please >keep in mind that these are 19th century words, not acts.
Sure, but as you also know Sabino also renounced to Basque Nationalism altogether at the end of his life, yet PNV's decided to selectively to keep some of his proposals. Regardless, what you say doesn't invalidate my argument. I am sure Hitler had great proposals, in fact Nazi Germany was at the time the world's top scientific power. Yet, for all the evil he created, which doesn't make up for the positive things, we repudiate him.
Many of Arana's early writings have been used to justify ETA's terrorism and the Basque Nationalism oppression. I wonder what type of oppression you need to see to fully reject him. I have seen enough, and so have a lot of decent people; yet the PNV continues to honor him.
>Comparing Arana to Hitler is sick for obvious reasons, such >as the 1937 bombing of Gernika by Hitler’s Condor Legion
>under direction of Franco, where for the first time in >European history innocent civilians became and were >military targets and casualties. But then again they may >not be obvious to many now that I think about it.
I really don't see the point of your argument (it seems you failed your logic class). The question I asked is why PNV honors a figure, Arana, whose racist writings are similar to Hitler's (apparently from your answer you agree that there is a similarity between Arana's racism and Hitler's racism). You can make the same analogy with more recent leaders like Jorg Heider, Milosevic or other leaders who are repudiated for their racism.
You are not answering the question; instead you are trying to use a logical fallacy known as "appeal to pity". It might work with Basque Nationalist but it's too easy an argument to challenge with academic rigor.
>The founder of one of the or the most popular parties in >Spain, the Spanish Popular Party (PP), Manuel Fraga, who >was the minister of the interior for Franco's fascist >regime, wrote a supporting prologue to a book that denies >the holocaust ever happened. Fraga not only has never >denounced fascism but believes that the Franco regime >(which assassinated 200,000 of its opponents after the >civil war ended in 1939) was the best regime that Spain >ever had. Please direct your Nazi analogies to more >appropriate groups.
Fraga was not the main ideologist of Francoism. That person was dictator Francisco Franco (whose totalitarian regime, by the way, was as evil as they come and I am very happy that I didn't have to endure) Therefore your argument of comparing Arana to Fraga breaks. The Partido Popolar doesn't see itself, nor it honors, the political heir of Franco. The PNV considers itself both the political heir of Arana. Many senior members of today's democratic political parties in Spain were at some point or another linked to the Franco regime, and the PNV is no exception. Where the PNV differs from other democratic parties, is that all of them without exception have steadfastly rejected individuals or ideologies such as Arana and his ideas. The PNV stills sees itself today as Arana's brainchild and it's proud of it.
>The 200,000 number you are throwing out there just doesn’t >correlate with the realities of the Basque Autonomous >Community with all the construction that is going on and >the sky rocketing real estate prices.
Again, you seem to have failed you logic 101 class; this is what a well respected human rights organization says,
http://www.foroermua.com/english/05-02-26%20Diaspora%20Declaration.htm
"In addition to the loss of nearly 900 individuals assassinated at the hands of ETA and the wounded and mutilated (more than 3,000) who have abandoned Euskadi (Basque Country) along with their families, there are more than 200,000 Basque exiles either under threat by ETA or suffocated by the lack of freedom and the legal impunity of violent individuals and organisations which have flourished under nationalism (in power since 1979). "
>The constant lumping together of ETA and Basques is the >standard strategy used by Spain in their quest to complete >their colonization of the Basque Country.
Wait a minute... What colonization are you talking about??? You not only seem to have failed Logic 101, but also History 101. The Basque provinces have been part of the Kingdom of Castilla since ~ 1200 because of a decision of their rulers. The Navarra region not only fought side by side with the other Christian kingdoms of its time, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navas_de_Tolosa, but in addition its "chains" symbol is part of the official Spanish seal (Navarra was annexed to Spain with a very particular foral regime in 1512 which was only updated in 1841 and 1983, the latter to make its provisions compatible with the Spanish Constitution of 1978).
>Basque society >today is modern and forward thinking and >rejects violence >and supports a democratic path to their >future and that is was Mr. Ibarretxe represents.
Really? I wouldn't be so sure of all Basques, this is one of the best examples of intolerance I can think of,
http://www.foroermua.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=5657&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
And the aggressor of Antonio Aguirre was left go by PNV's Ertaintza despite he was caught on TV. What an incredible example of forward thinking: if you buy Basque Nationalism, you can commit crimes with impunity. If you don't you are the victim of crimes and nobody cares for you, especially if the aggressor is a Basque Nationalist.

Final thought to you guys opposing Mr. Ibarretxe's right to talk. I have no problem to meet in person and discuss your political ideas, but perhaps you wouldn't allow me such a right. I am starting to think that you don't believe in the right of freedom of expression, and you are bother by people who don't think like you. When Mr. Aznar, former president of the Spanish Government, and member of the Popular Party (really proud of their fascist past) talked in diverse American universities and didn't hear any of you who now opposed Mr. Ibarretxe raise serious questions about his dubious democratic past.
Here you have a youtube video, where Mr. Aznar talks in Georgetown University about his role against Al-Qaeda, and the new "reconquista" against the "moors" (his words):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7no1WObcRs

Oh – let me put it in simpler terms for you...

Arana – killed 0 persons.
Hitler – killed over 6,000,000

You do the math.

P.S. I aced my logic class…

Foro de Ermua a respected human rights organization??? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! By the PP, I'm sure. I remember when the spokesperson for the group representing victims of the terrorist attack in Madrid refused to share the stage with such "human rights" groups, because they are nothing but political groups in disguise, with some real victims being used for political purposes. How much of the Foro de Ermua is funded by the Spanish govermnent?

PP always pulls out the race card, the old Basque purity b.s. Like was stated previoulsy, the PNV has evolved since 1880, or whenever Arana was around. Check out some of the things our elected officials here in the US let take place under their watch 125 years ago, state sponsered racism, child labor, etc etc, yet we don't say that our political parties are based on these antiquated policies. How many of our countries founders were slave owners, sad to say? Times change. If you want to fight against an organization with a really horrendous human rights history, you could go after the Catholic Church. (Spanish Inquisition, anyone?)
Basque purity, ha ha. I've been involved with some Basque human rights groups in the past, and my "blood" is not Basque, but I have been treated with nothing but friendliness and respect. Also, go ask the African immigrant fishermen in areas around Lekeitio, who are learning to speak Basque, if they feel welcomed or rejected. I've had friends over there tell me they are so delighted by these new Basques. It ain't the blood, it's the state of mind.

>Oh – let me put it in simpler terms for you...
>Arana – killed 0 persons.
>Hitler – killed over 6,000,000
>You do the math.
>P.S. I aced my logic class…
With counterarguments like this, I cannot believe you aced your logic class. This doesn't disqualify Arana as racist. Just "bacause" Arana wasn't as successful in its ethnic cleansing as Hitler it doesn't mean that Arana was less evil than Hitler in its intentions. One has only to compare some excerpts from the two guys to reach the unequivocal conclusion of the evilness of Sabino Arana (and why its honoring by PNV is outrageous):
From Sabino Arana we get:
"1) The foreigners will be able to settle in Bizkaya under the tutelage of their respective consuls; but they will not be able to become naturalized citizens. With respect to the Spaniards, the Juntas Generales (the government) they'll have to decide first whether they need to be expelled, and they should not be authorized to enter the territory of Bizkaia during the first years of independence in order to erase more easily any footprint that their domination left in the character, in the traditions and in the language.
2) The citizenship of Bizkaia will belong by natural right and traditional to the families aboriginal from Bizkaia, and in general to those families of "Basque race", as an effect of the confederation;y and, if given away by the Juntas Generales, ....., to the families of mixed race "Basque-foreigners".... "If we were given the choice between a Bizcaia populated with "maketos" speaking only Basque and a Bizcaia populated with Bizcaians speaking only Spanish, we would take the second choice without a doubt the second choice since it better to have Bizcaian substance with exotic accidents that can be eliminated and be substituted with natural ones than an exotic substance with Bizkaian properties which could be never be changed"
The work "maketo" is still used by ETA/Batasuna y some radical sectors of the PNV to refer to people they consider to be "of non Basque race" and, in a general sense "non Basque Nationalists"
Now from Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler we get:
"... Nobody, excepts the members of the Nation, will be allowed to be a citizen. Nobody, except those with German blood in their veins, no matter their religious convictions, will be allowed to be a citizen of the state. Therefore, no Jew will be a member of the nation. Those who are not citizens of the state, will only be allowed to reside in Germany as a host and he will be subject to foreign laws. (...) We have to cut all non German inmmigration. We will ask all non Arians arrived to Germany after 1914 to abandone immediately the national territory. (...) In the case of all state nationals, there we will need to examine their race and nationality."
What truly differentiates these two guys is that the second was way more successful with its ethnic cleansing project (and I thank God that Sabino wasn't). But at core, both their ideologies are equally evil.

Basques are not racist, Ibarretxe is not racist, about 90% of Basques hate violence, we just want to decide how we want to rule ourselves. Your arguments have been refuted by several people already. I'm just sick and tired of people who declare themselves to be "Non Nationalist" but clearly defend the anti-Basque agenda of the Spanish right wing.

I wish you identified yourself in your comments like the rest of us, so that we can address you directly.

How am I disqualified as a serious debater but you get to use terms such as "PNV neofascists", "Basque supremacy" etc? Aren't these insults to the majority of Basques who support our elected officials? Americans that ignore the details of the Basque conflict have no way to verify if your Spanish propaganda (in my opinion) is accurate. So, to the people that have an interest in the Basque Country and nations without a state, I invite them to visit the Basque Country and learn what's going on for themselves.

>I wish you identified yourself in your comments like the >rest of us, so that we can address you directly.
Well there is a reason why we are keeping our identity secret. We know for a fact that the PNV condemns terror rhetoric is just that: plain rhetoric. Our knowledge of the Basque society forces us to remain anonymous. And it has been the tradition in the Stanford Daily forums since their inception; if you are not comfortable with debating this way, that's really your problem.
>How am I disqualified as a serious debater but you get to >use terms such as "PNV neofascists", "Basque supremacy" >etc? Aren't these insults to the majority of Basques who >support our elected officials?
No!
Look at the definition of fascism,
http://www.webster.com/dictionary/fascism
"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
Your continuous appeal to the belief that Basques as a monolithic ethnic group with shared ideology and that those who don't buy the Basque Nationalism propaganda are not real Basques speak for itself.

>Americans that ignore the details of the Basque conflict >have no way to verify if your Spanish propaganda (in my >opinion) is accurate.
My "Spanish propaganda" as you call it, is what history books tells us about the history of the Kingdom of Navarra and the separate history of the Basque provinces. I have pointed to wikipedia, for what is worth, but you have yet to provide a single respected, objective reference of your claims. You are just repeating the Basque Nationalism lies with the hope that they make you right. Sorry, but that strategy doesn't work here.
>So, to the people that have an interest in the Basque >Country and nations without a state, I invite them to visit >the Basque Country and learn what's going on for >themselves.
Sure, me too. I advise you to go to a place like Etxarr Aranatz in the Navarresse region, live 1 year over there being openly anti ETA and wearing only t-shirts who have Spanish flags. If you come out the situation alive or without fearing for your physical integrity and not having experienced a single instance of harassment for not buying into Basque Nationalism, then we can talk about the "virtues of Basque Nationalism"

By the way, I'm part of that 50% (yes, that non-existant 50%) no nationalistic Basque society, suffering on the shade of the silence impossed by PNV (in the media, and administration) and ETA (in the streets with its "imperial guards" of violent gangs, and the killings/kidnappings).

The so-called descendants of Basques (as myself), please. Do you think a party founded by racists, whose president said a few (!) years ago "I prefer a black person who speaks Basque, than a Basque who doesn't", is something you would defend in this country?

I want Ibarretxe to speak here (I'm 100% pro it). But I also want somebody to challenge him, to ask him the questions he doesn't want to explain. That way, that 50% under his boot would be heard too.

"I want Ibarretxe to speak here (I'm 100% pro it). But I also want somebody to challenge him, to ask him the questions he doesn't want to explain. That way, that 50% under his boot would be heard too."
WHY DON'T YOU COME AND ASK THE QUESTIONS YOURSELF?

My friend,
Your debating techniques are amazingly bad. Empty of arguments, you try to distort my words. Those techniques might work back home, but here are projecting how intellectually poor Basque Nationalism is at core :-)).
>>"being democratically elected is not, by itself, any >>warranty of anything..."
>>So, I guess that not being democratically elected is the >>best way of government.
No, I didn't say that. All I said is that when evaluating the good/evil nature of a leader, the fact he has Ibarretxe has been democratically elected is pointless. You need to get into the type of society his policies have created, how the non Basque Nationalist are harassed everyday while the Basque Nationalist can commit crimes which go unpunished, etc. You, and the rest, have been so far completely unwilling to debate that, relying instead in empty, Basque Nationalist arguments. It doesn't speak very well of you guys.
Regarding democracy, I think that indirect democracy, like the form of government practiced at the Federal level in the US, is the best system of government we know so far. That said it is not perfect because,
>>Now, I got you. The WWII veterans must be really proud of >>your statement.
Those WWII veterans had to fight the regime which was built by a guy, Hitler, who was as democratically elected as Ibarretxe. So! Your argument is so weak that I am surprised you actually brought this up.
>You mean it is not politically OK for you and your party to >hear some dissident voice. So, it is OK if he talks in >other not-so "exceptional circunstances." Would it be >appropaite for him to talk in a high school in a submarine >in the middle of the Artic Ocean?
I am going to be even more precise, if he had decided to go to the Flint Center, a very nice Bay Area auditorium, we couldn't have cared less. Other people might have cared, but those of us who are here because we love Stanford, wouldn't. He picked Stanford for a reason, its international prestige so he can manipulate our institution's reputation..
>If the Spanish Ambassador in the US and another political >representtives from the Spanish spectrum and the goverment >visit the US and give a talk, how many time have you >opposed them in the same way that you are opposing to Mr. >Ibarretxe's right to talk? Have you ever ask their hosts to >have an opponent to challenge their opinions?
That is completely hypothetical. And besides, the question begins by a false assumption, that just because we are committed to expose the evils of Ibarretxe, one has to be committed to expose all evils of the world. For us who believe in the supremacy of the individual over "community" type ideologies like Basque Nationalism, we know that today we are the ones opposing the evils of Ibarretxe and tomorrow other people will chose their own fights.
What I encourage you is that if such situation happens, and you think it's inappropriate that you launch your own campaign. If I learn about it and I feel it's appropriate to give you my support, I'll do it.
>>How old are you?
WOW I am honored that you think I can successfully challenge the man. :).
NOTE TO THE READERS: this is the second time a Basque Nationalists is asking for our IDs. These people are so used to their totalitarian tactics that their only recourse when they are left without arguments, like it's being the case now, is the personal threat. Again, does anybody have doubts why most of us decided to remain anonymous?
>>So, in order to make it more academic let's get a >>challenger, who am I guessing? a Spanish politician?
Somebody like the President of Navarra, Miguel Sanz Sesma, whose region is trying to be stolen by Ibarretxe would have been more than appropriate. At this point, we are suggesting somebody equally qualified (even with a better academic background more aligned with the "supposedly" academic mission of the event).
>> Well, you din't answer my question. So, I guess you never >>oppoosed Mr. Aznar's right to talk in an academic setting >>without a challenger.
Again, I wasn't in Georgetown and at the time Aznar had no political responsibilities as Ibarretxe has now and there were not elections scheduled shortly after, and Aznar didn't try to sell a political plan rejected by its constituency. You are making a senseless apples to oranges comparison.
>> Please, do't compare the PNV with >>the Popular Party.
True, PNV wasn't founded by Arana.
>>The PNV fought against fascism,
Who knows why. So did Stalin and the USSR communist party and I don't think very highly of either.
>>against Franco and its political allies--of whom the >>Popular Party is a heir of
Can you provide any justification for such statement? Were the PP (or its predecessor AP) created by Franco himself? Does the PP honor Franco's figure in any way? No and No.
However, the PNV was founded by Arana and the PNV honors Arana. The difference is huge!
>>--against Hitler, the forefathers of Aznar fought against >>democracy killing millions of people. As I said the >>Popular Party has not condemed Franco's dictatorship, so I >>guess that's a wonderful speaker to bring as an opponet of
I am not going to speak for a party which is not my own. The PP/AP where created after Spain's transition to democracy, so I am unable to tell why they don't do that. The apple's to apple's comparison is whether yes or no, PNV is the heir of Arana (YES, PP isn't the heir of Franco) and whether PNV honors Arana (YES, PP doesn't, there is a big difference between not willing to condemn Franco's regime for whatever reason and being the political heir of the regime). As the PNV proudly proclaims the PNV is one of the oldest political parties in Spain. Well the PP isn't. So getting into comparisons of what would have done this or that guy when they were born doesn't seem very constructive to me.
And this thing about bringing the PP (and not the PSOE for instance) evidences again the Basque Nationalist obsession of if you are Basque, then you are Basque Nationalist, other wise you are non Basque, you are a Spaniard (as if it was insult) and a PP supporter (as of again it was an insult). This us vs them rhetoric sounds all too familiar here in the US and not in a positive way.
>Mr. Ibarretxe. The PNV and Mr. Ibarretxe did not only fight >against Franco but also hate ETA.
This is really outrageous. How can you claim that this guy was tough on ETA when he governed with ETA's political wing between 1999 and 2001 and put one of ETA's most prominent killers in the human rights commission of the Basque Country? As a matter of comparison, the aggressive policy undertaken by PP towards ETA in 2000-2004 has weakened ETA to a point that few people, especially the PNV people who want to perpetuate the myth that ETA cannot be beaten by the police, could have imagined say during the mid nineties. The PNV's governments, despite controlling almost all aspects of the Basque society have done very little fighting ETA in comparison.
>>"Ibarretxe is seeking an opportunity to manipulate" How do >>you know? Why are you so afraid of him? As far as I know >>he is going to talk about Basue poliicis.
From the talk,
"The President of the Basque Autonomous Community will discuss his "Road Map to bring an end to the Basque Conflict," including his offer of a political agreement already made to Madrid, based on a rejection of violence and an embrace of democratic principles and a Basque society plebiscite."
Either the talk announcement is lying or he is going to talk about his infamous Ibarretxe plan! For all the reasons we have explained in detail, we believe that this topic and the format of the event make it eminently political. We chose to fight for the reputation of our university, which Ibarretxe doesn't care at all as long as he can make politics.
>>Come on man! Of course he lacks supports in Spain, because >>he is an elected representative of the Basque Autonomous >>Community and not of Spain. Has John Garamendi political >>resposibility in New York? So I guess we could argue (with >>your great 101 class logic) that then John Garamendi has >>lacks support in New York...I am not sure if you >>understand politics and how a democracy works (well, your >>above statement says all),
And as it is clearly showed you lack the understanding of how a system of government like the Spanish works. Last year, several projects of reform of regional laws or "estatutos" were successfully passed by their respective regional parliaments and the national Spanish Congress. Ibarretxe has the infamous record of being the only regional leader who had a regional law passed at its regional parliament but rejected by the Spanish congress. He is a bad loser and as you explicitly claim here
>but "pressing," "lobbying" are democratic tools...also
He is trying to manipulate our university's reputation to "press" and "lobby" the Spanish government, which we the undersigned, steadfastly REJECT.
>>listening and negotiating. So, please let's listen what >>Mr. >Ibarretxe has to say.
Now that you have acknowledged that the main motivation of Ibarretxe coming here is political, this last statement of yours is completely bogus.

>>I seriously believe this person has a special interest in >>discrediting Basque society and their elected officials.
Why? How is that for the typical empty of arguments Basque Nationalist statement?
>His arguments are full of the same cliches the Spanish >right wing media has used for years.
My arguments are evidenced with data (referenced and documented) while yours are just a recitation of Basque Nationalism. I agree that for Basque Nationalists, documenting, referring is pointless, specially if it contradicts your ideology, but for those unbiased readers, it's essential to reference the statements that one gives as facts.
>He says, the 19th century founder of the PNV was a racist. >The PNV abandoned these ideas in the beginning of the 20th >century,
Then again, why they continue to honor he who created those ideas? Your argument is misleading. We ask why the PNV honors a well known racist, you say that the PNV is not racist anymore (at least officially, although the Rh negative /Nigro speaking Basque language Arzalluz) might be yet again that what the PNV says officially and what it does are two different things. What's the point of honoring Arana? Really, would any Basque Nationalist please answer the issue on the morals of honoring a racist?
>fought against the fascists in Spain in 1936 and helped the >allies against the nazis in WWII.
Again, so did soviet communists and I don't think very highly of them either. The PNV must be judged for the type of despicable society it has created once it arrived to power in the early eighties.
>I will never excuse Arana's ideas,
You just did it.
>as someone pointed >before, but in the 19th century people >actually believed in races. Spaniards are a good example of >this. They have been celebrating a "Dia de la Raza" (Day of >the Spanish Race) until 1975. We are talking 1975, not the >19th century.
No serious politician in Spain talks about race this days except the former president of the PNV, Arzalluz,
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2004/01/17/espana/1074325052.html
"In Europe, ethnically speaking, if there is a nation that's (1993).
"I am not racist,. I prefer a nigro, nigro speaking Basque to a white who ignores Basque." (1994).
"I am not saying that Basques have the right to who knows what supremacy. The question is of the Rh negative in blood confirms only that this old people has its own roots, identifiable since prehistory as supported by research done by reputed genetists". (2-XI-2000)
Never mind that the oldest remains of human bones found in Spain are not in the Basque country, this man's obsession with the "racial profile of Basques" has been a constant until he was retired out of power, despite that "officially", according to you, the PNV is not racist.
>According to you "Basque society is tyrannical"? Isn't that >assuming we are a monolithic group?
In case there was a misunderstanding by "Basque society", I mean the social reality of the society which exists in today's Basque Country in Spain, cooked by the PNV through its many years in power.
It's because to me Basque <> Basque Nationalists and I have a great deal of concern for Basques who are non Nationalists and who are suffering a great deal as a result that we are doing this (on the of the reasons).
>>There are a lot of Basques in California and the Western >>US >who have worked and contributed to help make this >>country >what it is today.
There are even more Chinese or Hispanics. And both ethnic groups have contributed a great deal to this great state. In fact, I would even bet that there are more Iranians than Basques in California (in LA alone there are a bunch of them) and the wealthiest Iranian (Gooogle's Kordestani) is certainly wealthier than the wealthiest Basque (Arrillaga). So I don't see your point.
>We have a great reputation and your distorted views will >not change that.
Well, few people I have talked to here in the Valley seem to have heard about Basque people except in the context of ETA, which is unfortunate but certainly a result of PNV's continuous effort of identifying BAsque-everything with Basque Nationalism. So you propaganda about your reputation might be true somewhere else, but certainly not here. In the Valley it's more common to see white guys going out with Chinese girls than Basques :).
>>I recommend everyone to go listen to Ibarretxe and see if >>what he has to say is reasonable or not.
And we recommend everybody to boycott the event unless the two sides of the argument are given equal chance!!!!
>I am done here.
If you come back, please be more convincing :).
>>Have a great weekend
You too!!!

Ongi etorri Ibarretxe and Gora Euskadi Askatuta!
My Aita was at the front at 15 years of age at 16 he was in Franco's notorious "University of Santon~a" one of many concentration camps all over Spain. We were not allowed to speak EUSKARA growing up in EUSKADI and yes we had Franco's democratic institutions run by the civil guard.
Let the duly elected PRESIDENT by the people speak and may be some of you right wing petition signer will learn something about democracy.
Gora Lendakari Aguirre!
Gora Lendakari Ibarretxe!
Gora Euskadi Askatuta! and the sooner the better!

Do you realize that you are basically trying to suppress our first amendment free speech rights? As I am sure the smart readers of the Daily message board have already realized, every single Basque Nationalist that has spoken here has tried to silence the critics to Mr Ibarretxe. A little bit ironic for somebody who says, "Also by knowing and listening to as many diverse points of view we'll be able to come up with our conclusions and reach a final truth, out truth, whichever that might be."
We agree. What we don't understand is why silencing the opposing views to Ibarretxe will help the audience. If you were truly committed to this thing, you would side with us and ask Stanford to hold a panel discussion instead of a political rally on behalf of Mr IBarretxe.